Curse

Xx Monk Hunter Xx · Jul 17, 2007, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Idk what your complaining about...I can heal as well as a monk when I want too, and I'd say the only thing more fun than spirit spamming is being a minion master necro.

Bloodborn · Jul 19, 2007, 03:47 PM // 15:47

I just switched my Necro's secondary from Monk to Ritualist last night(I got factions specifcaly to try Rit out) So far I'm pleasantly surprised. He was a Blood/Protection mix, playing the damage/damage reduction role. In ways the Monk was better to really stop some heavy damage from beating someone down fast, but I like Ritualist more for a couple of reasons.

1) For a backup healer Rit makes a much better secondary because it's skills aren't balanced around Divine Favor. [skill]Soothing Memories[/skill] is a nice heal. The cooldown makes it unspammable but it's great in a pinch for a non healbot role. Meshes well with ashes.

2) [skill]Shielding Hands[/skill] was great, but I found I mostly used it on myself anyway. [skill]Protective Was Kaolai[/skill] gives some much appreciated armor(especially for a health sacrificer), and a great emergency heal for anyone in the party.

3) [skill]Vengeful Weapon[/skill] doesn't quite stop the damage inflow that [skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill] does, but where it lacks in that area it makes up for in sheer usefulness all around. Reversal was super weak vs low damage attacks or when your target was high on health anyway, resulting in often wasted casts, but Vengeful is great no matter if someone is hit for 10 or 100 you can always rely on a set amount of health stolen. I appreciate the constant effect.

4) Ashes and Weapons aren't removable like Enchantments are. Which is a big plus

Maybe I'm looking at the class just from the context of my build, but from my experience with the skills I've used Restoration is quite solid. I can't speak for the other attributes, but they look interesting none the less! All I can say is there could be a little more synergy with other classes, but other they than Ritualist looks solid all around.

(Pleading ignorance here but looking at the Paragon they got a lot worse issues...)

unmatchedfury · Jul 19, 2007, 05:13 PM // 17:13

ritulist would be awsoem if this was a hack and slash game for sure. But in a team game they are almsot always replaced by their more effeciant counterparts.

because despite what people might say

monks > rits ( healing monks suck @$$, and because rits suck slightly less @$$ does not make them somehow viable. )

eles > rits ( rits do more on target spike dmg than eles as shown by rit spiek in PvP unfortuantly pure elemental dmg in PvE is worhless if its single target, who needs 23 dmg spells? =/

warriors > rits nuff said there.

necs > rits ( MM bomber is the only build that can compete. )

also things that rits can do that aren't neccesary in PvE

party protect, useful indeed, but its only 8 hits of protect per 30 seconds, not helpfull enoguh to have one instead of monk

party heal. the rit is the best party healer ever. a monk can't even compete with life, kaoli, spirit feast, and other aoe heals. but quess what? pure healas are really worhtless prot is 10x better and a monk can bring a big enoguh heal to take care of its own. no need to devote an entire slot to party heal.

weapon spells are nice dmg. but there are plenty of other sorces of dmg compared to the rit, a weapon master or w/e rit isnt needed, jsut a cute gimick.

ibex333 · Jul 21, 2007, 08:56 PM // 20:56

I played my rit a lot in HM recently and I'd like to whine and cry some more...

The rit is all but USELESS in HM. Most spirits that take damage to themselves while preventing it for players die in mere seconds! For example.. A spirit that costs 25 energy, takes a long time to cast and much longer to recharge dies in 5 seconds when the tank of the party is being pounded on. A monk will keep healing that tank and everything will be ok. But what about me? Now.. How is that fair, when most characters remain just as strong and useful in HM as they are in Normal? Ritualist spirits should get a boost in Hard Mode(more life, more armor). I can see how that's a bad idea in PvP but in PvE it's a necessity.

The only way a rit can be useful in HM is to either cast weapon spells on warrior/tank(boring), go straight healing(boring), or use distance channeling spells of which there are only a few and they take a long time to recharge. Spirit rift is easily avoided by enemies and wasted if they happen to move.

The Rit just doesn't give as much to a party as a warrior, ele or a necro.
No experienced HM pug will ever take a Rit in their party for DOA or anything of that sort... Well maybe after a recent nerf they will.

I wish there were ritualist spirits that would passively "cripple" the enemies somehow instead of doing direct damage or healing. For example.. While the spirit is active, ALL enemies who suffer from condition move 50% slower.

Or... All hexed enemies suffer from -5 hp degen or -3 energy degen. Oh.. Here's another idea. Every time an enemy is knocked down, that enemy looses X energy or enchantments.

That kind of spirits would be much more useful to a party under just about all circumstances.

shoogi · Jul 21, 2007, 09:30 PM // 21:30

i gotta disagree. rits excel at nothing?
1. all the channeling magic skills are so overpowered, almost all of them do 100 dmg at least, with quite a bunch dealing over 125. a channeling rit is stronger than any elementalist atm (this needs to be balanced asap). only downside is that channeling magic doesnt offer any wupass elite skill (ye ye i know OoS is used in pvp, i understand that this thread is about pve). but u can always take a spawning power energy management elite and keep merrily spamming rifts that do 150 dmg each.
2. healing rits can be better than monks in many circumstances. there are enough threads here about that.
3. spirit spam, way better than what ranger has to offer. both the offensive and defensive ones. (this is more relevant in pvp though)

ibex333, im sry but u sound like a very unexperienced rt. who the hell uses displacement/union/shelter in pve? "the rit doesnt give as much as a warrior, ele or necro"? channeling rits do more dmg than all of these, channeling rits are ridiculously overpowered (none of u ever been to HA recently, have u..)
"use distance channeling spells of which there are only a few and they take a long time to recharge. Spirit rift is easily avoided by enemies and wasted if they happen to move." - that entire sentence is total BS. if ur trying to throw rifts on moving targets, than do me a favor. only a few skills that take long time to recharge? give me a break.

and when it comes to farming, no one can farm like rt can, 55 hp monks included.

plz, the fact that u ppl dont know how to play ritualists doesnt mean that they suck.

Dr Strangelove · Jul 21, 2007, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibex333

I played my rit a lot in HM recently and I'd like to whine and cry some more...

The rit is all but USELESS in HM. Most spirits that take damage to themselves while preventing it for players die in mere seconds! For example.. A spirit that costs 25 energy, takes a long time to cast and much longer to recharge dies in 5 seconds when the tank of the party is being pounded on. A monk will keep healing that tank and everything will be ok. But what about me? Now.. How is that fair, when most characters remain just as strong and useful in HM as they are in Normal? Ritualist spirits should get a boost in Hard Mode(more life, more armor). I can see how that's a bad idea in PvP but in PvE it's a necessity.

The only way a rit can be useful in HM is to either cast weapon spells on warrior/tank(boring), go straight healing(boring), or use distance channeling spells of which there are only a few and they take a long time to recharge. Spirit rift is easily avoided by enemies and wasted if they happen to move.

The Rit just doesn't give as much to a party as a warrior, ele or a necro.
No experienced HM pug will ever take a Rit in their party for DOA or anything of that sort... Well maybe after a recent nerf they will.

I don't know what hard mode you're playing, but rits are insanely useful in Hard mode. Splinter weapon is hax against big mobs, even more so than a fire ele. Communing spirits are pretty darn useful if you know how to use them. If you just mash buttons, yes, they're going to suck. if you throw them down to prevent big spikes and beef them up with sig of binding/creation, they're going to be completely awesome. Also, vital weapon is kinda awesome.

For missions where you don't have to move a lot, such as vizunah square, offensive spirit spammers add a huge amount of DPS.

Spirit's strength rits are pretty good against high AL enemies, and have several open slots for utility.

Rits specced 100% resto or 100% channeling aren't that nice, but builds with a little of both are nice, even in hard mode.

Cebe · Jul 24, 2007, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

I don't know what hard mode you're playing, but rits are insanely useful in Hard mode. Splinter weapon is hax against big mobs, even more so than a fire ele. Communing spirits are pretty darn useful if you know how to use them. If you just mash buttons, yes, they're going to suck. if you throw them down to prevent big spikes and beef them up with sig of binding/creation, they're going to be completely awesome. Also, vital weapon is kinda awesome.

I often take Razah into Hard Mode set up as a defensive spirit summoner. Just park him at the back and let him churn them out as often as possible. Before a fight in HM I often had him set up Shelter, Union and Displacement meaning you can just wammo charge right on in and, even though Shelter will only last 2 seconds or so it completely neutralises the first wave of spike damage very nicely...which takes a lot of pressure off the monks.

Razah can also throw down Earthbind for my Ele. Since my Ele is my only character who ever really bothers with HM, Me and Sousuke take plenty of knockdowns and Razah can take Earthbind. Many times we've had a mob licking floor throughout most of a fight.

Rits are obscenely useful.

Xiooua · Jul 24, 2007, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by unmatchedfury

ritulist would be awsoem if this was a hack and slash game for sure. But in a team game they are almsot always replaced by their more effeciant counterparts.

because despite what people might say

monks > rits ( healing monks suck @$$, and because rits suck slightly less @$$ does not make them somehow viable. )

eles > rits ( rits do more on target spike dmg than eles as shown by rit spiek in PvP unfortuantly pure elemental dmg in PvE is worhless if its single target, who needs 23 dmg spells? =/

warriors > rits nuff said there.

necs > rits ( MM bomber is the only build that can compete. )

also things that rits can do that aren't neccesary in PvE

party protect, useful indeed, but its only 8 hits of protect per 30 seconds, not helpfull enoguh to have one instead of monk

party heal. the rit is the best party healer ever. a monk can't even compete with life, kaoli, spirit feast, and other aoe heals. but quess what? pure healas are really worhtless prot is 10x better and a monk can bring a big enoguh heal to take care of its own. no need to devote an entire slot to party heal.

weapon spells are nice dmg. but there are plenty of other sorces of dmg compared to the rit, a weapon master or w/e rit isnt needed, jsut a cute gimick.

I lol'ed. Possibly the most ignorant post regarding Ritualists I've ever seen, ever.

Have you even ever played as a Ritualist? I'm going with no. You've presented a lot of baseless arguments that are just laughable, and clearly don't understand what the profession is capable of outside of PvP. How unfortunate for you.

samcobra · Jul 24, 2007, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xx Monk Hunter Xx

Idk what your complaining about...I can heal as well as a monk when I want too, and I'd say the only thing more fun than spirit spamming is being a minion master necro.

or stabbing yourself in the throat. Neither takes skill, and requires relatively mindless button mashing. This is proven by how well heroes play this. Ritualist as a class is a less skill-intensive class in general, but I think where it excels is weapons spells. Playing a balanced channelling rit, needed to switch between allies to cast weapon spells on, enemies to use essence strike on, stuff to use utility spells on, etc, is probably the most fun I have playing a rit.

TedTheDead · Jul 24, 2007, 08:47 PM // 20:47

Spirits in DoA????? NOOOOOOO. "That is why you fail." - Yoda

Arcane Echo + Spirit Rift for AoE damage
Attuned Was Songkai + Essence Strike (other options available) for endless energy (basically).

Never will I understand the notion of Rits not being able to deal high damage in PvE. I will yeild the fact that a fire ele will beat them, but not by any embarrasing margin to justify the reputation they have. Rits are a Meteor Shower away from being the better nuker IMO.

And when it comes to healing I feel a rit is better than a monk. HEALING. Monks are still better overall because of the sheer power of the Protection skill line.

G E A R S · Jul 25, 2007, 01:18 AM // 01:18

i Extremely agree that the Ritualist is extremely effective in HM but EXTREMELY disagree that the ritualist is overpowered. The problem with the ritualist is that now one wants to put up with them. The only place that rit is accepted is in Urgoz as a Ritual Lord. Every other position the rit can play the ritualist has to argue his way into that spot and fight off the other teammates. But when in battle he is just as good as everyone else.

and on the overpowered note:

Spirit Rift < Inciendary Bond
Adjacent Foes take 140dmg~ < Nearby Foes take 80dmg~ + burni

And on the healing note the rit can heal for more with 1 spell but the monk has other spells which make there spells more powerful and can outheal that 1 spell.

And on the spirits note i agree defending spirits arent effective defending 1 guy/tank but when defending the entire party they are EXTREMELY effective and can easily take care of spikes and dmg to people that the monks cant reach fast enough.

The offensive spirts are good in both nm and hm...nothing to be said

Skyros · Jul 25, 2007, 04:09 AM // 04:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by shoogi

i gotta disagree. rits excel at nothing?
1. all the channeling magic skills are so overpowered, almost all of them do 100 dmg at least, with quite a bunch dealing over 125. a channeling rit is stronger than any elementalist atm (this needs to be balanced asap). only downside is that channeling magic doesnt offer any wupass elite skill (ye ye i know OoS is used in pvp, i understand that this thread is about pve). but u can always take a spawning power energy management elite and keep merrily spamming rifts that do 150 dmg each.

Shoogi shoogi shoogi... you apparently are the inexperienced one. Rit Spike is a powerful build, that's a given. BUT, to say its overpowered is laughable. If you were half the HA player you let on to everyone you would know that the greatest weakness to Rit spike = hexes. Most Rit SPikes rely on Expel hexes as there main source of hex removal so a hex heavy team > Rit Spike (see Heroway)

Another thing... any decent monk can catch a rit spike (or any spike) very easily so maybe you just suck as a monk (if thats what you play) OR you just had crappy monks. (please don't post OMG I HAVE RANK 9 or [insert name] has a Tiger n00bl3t!!1!!!!eleven!, cause i don't care). ALL THAT COUPLED with the fact that is a common practice for almost everyone on team to bring a shield with +10 armor to almost every possible damage type all aims to cut down the "overpowered" damage of Rit Spike.

PLEASE stop saying ignorant things like this. Rit spike doesn't need to "rebalanced"... people just need to ooglin how fast it COULD wipe teams and start lookin at the obvious weaknesses of a fairly popular build.

DeBron · Jul 25, 2007, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by unmatchedfury

warriors > rits nuff said there.

Lol, wtf?

You can't even really compare the two unless you're talking spirit's strength . . .

tsnorquist · Jul 25, 2007, 07:16 PM // 19:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibex333

I played my rit a lot in HM recently and I'd like to whine and cry some more...

The rit is all but USELESS in HM. Most spirits that take damage to themselves while preventing it for players die in mere seconds! For example.. A spirit that costs 25 energy, takes a long time to cast and much longer to recharge dies in 5 seconds when the tank of the party is being pounded on. A monk will keep healing that tank and everything will be ok. But what about me? Now.. How is that fair, when most characters remain just as strong and useful in HM as they are in Normal? Ritualist spirits should get a boost in Hard Mode(more life, more armor). I can see how that's a bad idea in PvP but in PvE it's a necessity.

The only way a rit can be useful in HM is to either cast weapon spells on warrior/tank(boring), go straight healing(boring), or use distance channeling spells of which there are only a few and they take a long time to recharge. Spirit rift is easily avoided by enemies and wasted if they happen to move.

The Rit just doesn't give as much to a party as a warrior, ele or a necro.
No experienced HM pug will ever take a Rit in their party for DOA or anything of that sort... Well maybe after a recent nerf they will.

I wish there were ritualist spirits that would passively "cripple" the enemies somehow instead of doing direct damage or healing. For example.. While the spirit is active, ALL enemies who suffer from condition move 50% slower.

Or... All hexed enemies suffer from -5 hp degen or -3 energy degen. Oh.. Here's another idea. Every time an enemy is knocked down, that enemy looses X energy or enchantments.

That kind of spirits would be much more useful to a party under just about all circumstances.

I don't know what HM you've been playing, but my Ritualist completely dominates Hard Mode and I'm complimented all the time and requested for help.

If you want a serious spike build using spirits, use this:

14 (or higher) in Communing
12 (or higher) in Channeling
3 (or higher) in Spawning

Offering of Spirits
Painful Bond
Pain
Bloodsong
Vamperisim
Anguish
Shadowsong
Summon Spirits

Precast: Pain, BS, Vamp, Anguish
Cast: Painful bond on target(s)
Summon Spirits to your location
Summon Shadowsong.

You'll do spike damage upwards of 300 per volley.. armor ignoring damage. This can't be beat and I know first hand.

Personally, you sound like an unexperienced/whiny Ritualist who hasn't mastered the class. It's hands down the best class in the game ...

IGN: Finna Geirmund

1 up and 2 down · Jul 26, 2007, 04:35 AM // 04:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsnorquist

I don't know what HM you've been playing, but my Ritualist completely dominates Hard Mode and I'm complimented all the time and requested for help.

tsnorquist you need to tell me what builds you are running in HM so I can be as successfull as you seem to be.

tsnorquist · Jul 26, 2007, 03:08 PM // 15:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1 up and 2 down

tsnorquist you need to tell me what builds you are running in HM so I can be as successfull as you seem to be.

Sure thing. The previously mentioned build is fantastic for spike damage, minor healing (Vamp), and energy management.

One great damage mitigation build I commonly use is this:

Communing 14(or higher)
Spawning 12(or higher)
Channeling 3

Soul Twisting
Destruction
Displacement
Signet of Creation
Shelter
Signet of Binding
Union
(Skill choice: Mighty was Vorizun, Boon of Creation, Feast of Souls, Death Pact Signet, Res, etc.)

You may be asking yourself, why destruction? Well, destruction has 5 energy cost with 15 sec recharge. By casting this, then using "Soul Twisting" on it, you'll have Soul Twisting up every 15 seconds. You can then use Soul Twisting on Shelter, Displacement, or Union.

I always try to keep Shelter up (with Signet of Binding & Creation). Displacement is great for getting a Union up with will relieve some of the pressure off of the monks.

A lot of folks complain that defensive spirits die too quickly in PVE (HM especially); I for one feel this build works very well in conjunction with a Protection Monk using Aegis & A Healer Monk / Restoration Rit.

I have many builds I could email you if you would like (let me know through pm) or ingame name: "Finna Geirmund" <-- 1 mission away from Legendary Guardian! Oye, Jennur's Horde /shake's fist

Daisuko · Sep 07, 2007, 10:25 PM // 22:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1 up and 2 down

tsnorquist you need to tell me what builds you are running in HM so I can be as successfull as you seem to be.

Ritualists DO own. Especially in hard mode. My hard mode team consists of me in R/Rt, with Xandra or Razah, Dunkoro (or other) as LoD healer, and a minion master or SS necro, with Prot hench, Blood hench, fire and earth hench.

Personally I use a Channel/Resto combination. 16 Channel, 15 resto.

Splinter Weapon
Bloodsong
Recovery
Recuperation
Offering of Spirit
Spirit Rift
Optional
Optional

The optional slots are usually either Ancestor's Rage, Spirit Light, Nightmare weapon, Painful Bond, ect. (Painful bond is best used with a Commune/Spawn rit, and someone with Vampirism)

Works well. Constant damage output, halved condition duration, unstrippable regeneration. Simply be smart about flagging and summoning before battle, and you're in business.

gmonster2 · Sep 08, 2007, 07:11 AM // 07:11

My build for PvE and this owns

communing 16
chanelling 13
spawning 4

Offering of spirit
pain
bloodsong
anguish
shadowsong
vampirisim
painful bond
Agony..(some say too weak but 198 life stealing damage over time ,i like it ,best used when 1 or 2 foes are left) think of it like a conjure nightmare (cheaper)or phantasm (more damage)...

The difference to a nuker is that for a ms or firestorm or any AoE spell enemies can get out of or run away from and thats the end of that damage, so you arent getting all the damage laid down on the foes. The spirits will just keep firing for 3 mins on some of them and cant be easily run from due to the long range. So over time, damage from spirits far out ways nuker damage..

Rit is my main character and the most fun to play.

Now with gw en i have tried pain inverter or radiation shield in place of agony all on the asura title track...or finish him

akh · Sep 08, 2007, 11:13 AM // 11:13

The only problem my rit has is energy managment. Offering is great but it takes elite slot.

Aethon · Sep 09, 2007, 01:13 AM // 01:13

Whether or not Ritualists are currently "effective", they don't seem to be getting the same attention that other classes get. I personally enjoy playing as a Ritualist, but I often feel that the class suffers from neglect (kind of like another class that will remain unnamed). Ritualists have a lot of potential as a class, but there are so many things that could use revision to make them less weird and more usable.

1. The bonus skills, Vampirism and Summon Spirits, while "okay", don't even remotely approach the pure awesomeness of other class-specific PvE skills.

2. Most Ritualist elites fail. While most classes have their fair share of duds, Ritualists seem to have the most severe case of this problem.

3. Many Ritualist skills DEMAND that spirits/weapon spells/item spells be somewhere on the bar. I wish Ritualist skills had less of these boring conditional clauses and more unique/interesting skills like Ancestor's Rage or Spirit Rift; but I'm a bit hesitant, seeing as how we might wind up with more skills like [skill=text]Clamor of Souls[/skill].

I believe that these conditions are the primary bottleneck in class-synergy with Ritualists (aside from, you know, redundant skill sets).

4. Not saying they aren't useful or anything, but spirits are boring. Part of this is that they're passive; I've only got 1 or 2 spirits, usually, but I can't imagine how boring it must be to play a pure Spirit Spammer. Rangers can get away with one spirit, but spirits are the cornerstone of the Ritualist class. Additionally, with the recharge on spirits, you'll often have to wait a while before you can move on.

5. I've noticed an inconsistent description for spirits. Are they creatures or not? To some skills, like [skill=text]boon of creation[/skill], they are. To other skills, like [skill=text]heal area[/skill], they are not. Argh! I hate anomalies. Plus I wouldn't mind something in-game to say that spirits have 31 energy, regardless of level; only through extensive trial-and-error can anyone tell how much energy [skill=text]Spirit Siphon[/skill] will return. A freaking tablet in Shing Jea would be enough for me. How many players, those who don't know about/use the wiki, are out there who are utterly confused with this skill? There isn't any indication that spirits even have energy, outside of this skill.

These are just personal observations, of course, but I think they should do a little more work on Ritualists. Will it happen? Doubtful, but who the heck knows.

PS: Not vitally important, but I wouldn't mind a set of armor that doesn't reuse the "shaman" look and yet isn't a bikini. I can dream, I guess.